The US Military is having a huge recruitment problem with its youth
what about its privatized national laboratories?
This finger is for you
Uncle George
Uncle Dick
Aunt Condaleeza
Funny Uncles Wolfie, Rummy and Rove
This finger is for you
Admiral (Butthead) Pete Nanos
Uncle Pete (Porkbarrel) Domenici
Aunt Heather (just-fire-em) Wilson
This finger is for you
Stephen Bechtel
Bechtel Corporation
Halliburton Inc
Blackwater Inc
...
et cetera
ad infinitum
.
.
.
Oh hell
forget the finger
lets go for the whole fist!
The youth of this country, especially those of us who bothered to get educated, to develop some moral character, to learn to solve problems, are going to be your downfall. Some of us are mad as hell and eventually we are going to find a way to take you down.
My brothers and sisters that survive your sick war for oil profits will come home mad as hell too. Some of them have been "made into men (and women)" in your trial by fire and will return ready to take their country back by means complementary to my own. I think you sick bastards had better look at passing some gun laws before the largest trained, hardened and disenfranchised generation ever comes home. You misogynist, racist, anti-science cretins have created your own worst nightmare, a whole generation of us who "have your number" and will have the means to clean house faster than you can evacuate it.
We will find a way to take our country back and put those "sacred freedoms" you like to spout about and that "blessed constitution" you like to hide behind back in place and there will be very, very, very little room for the kind of greedy, corrupt, dishonest behavior you thrive on.
These ideals are real and cannot be mangled to your purposes forever.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident". Go look up "self-evident" in the dictionary...
Any "Young Republicans" in the audience want to stick up for these lying sacks of shit, for this misguided concept of patriotism, for this dead-end crash-course they have put us on?
I love my country, I love truth, I love science, but I don't love what this nation and now this laboratory are becoming. It is up to us to make things right again.
- Calvin
PS. Sorry to have dropped out here... I am not as prolific as the good Doctor or Pinky and The Brain... thanks to them for carrying the banner. And boy am I pissed.
My brothers and sisters that survive your sick war for oil profits will come home mad as hell too. Some of them have been "made into men (and women)" in your trial by fire and will return ready to take their country back by means complementary to my own. I think you sick bastards had better look at passing some gun laws before the largest trained, hardened and disenfranchised generation ever comes home. You misogynist, racist, anti-science cretins have created your own worst nightmare, a whole generation of us who "have your number" and will have the means to clean house faster than you can evacuate it.
We will find a way to take our country back and put those "sacred freedoms" you like to spout about and that "blessed constitution" you like to hide behind back in place and there will be very, very, very little room for the kind of greedy, corrupt, dishonest behavior you thrive on.
These ideals are real and cannot be mangled to your purposes forever.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident". Go look up "self-evident" in the dictionary...
Any "Young Republicans" in the audience want to stick up for these lying sacks of shit, for this misguided concept of patriotism, for this dead-end crash-course they have put us on?
I love my country, I love truth, I love science, but I don't love what this nation and now this laboratory are becoming. It is up to us to make things right again.
- Calvin
PS. Sorry to have dropped out here... I am not as prolific as the good Doctor or Pinky and The Brain... thanks to them for carrying the banner. And boy am I pissed.
30 comments:
"Loyalty" is earned; disloyalty to a government made up largely of saboteurs is "de rigeur"! Give 'em the finger, I say.
We now have an Executive Branch that is attempting to overthrow the Government of the United States from within -- for profit. These traitors to the Nation and the US Constitution call themselves "Neoconservatives," and they should all be thrown out, up to and including the Vice President and the President.
Attaboy, Calvin! Piss on 'em!
-Brad
Go Calvin!
We sympathize with you man! It is your generation we are pulling for here ultimately.
Our parents (unwittingly, with best intentions) handed us a sack of shit (global warming, pollution, deforestation started with the Industrial revolution). Now we (who should know better) are handing you a double-helping.
We apologize for helping let things go off the rails as badly as they have... and hope we can help at least turn the train back upright after it jackknifes.
You are dead-on when you suggest that these bastards have created their own worst nightmare. To the young and disenfranchised technologists and scientists such as yourself, and all of the young soldiers (duped and abused even more than our Vietnam generation was), add the cadre of immigrant and offshore workers that these bastards have used to fuel their outrageous profits. These bastards will eventually have no place to hide.
To be fair (and balanced like Fox news!) we have to admit that *we* are part of the problem too. We are "these bastards".
We buy outrageously subsidized (by our military spending) gasoline and all of the products derived from it and transported to us by it.
We make a very good salary compared to most people in this country who must have a two-income household just to make rent and groceries. They don't own homes or drive new cars or eat out (except fast food) or travel or expect to retire in luxury at 55 or 60 o ... all the things WE do like it was our due.
Don't get Us wrong... We *like* our comforts and We worked hard to get them, but so did a lot of people less lucky than Us and some of them aren't even citizens (unless they sign up for our military when nobody, nobody, nobody else will - Yo Soy El Army) but they still do our dirty work.
Leave better tips.
Support higher wages.
Support your teachers.
Support your trades workers.
Support your (good) policemen.
Support your neighbors and friends.
Support good living and right livelihood!
Calvin. This Doctor, for one, is proud to have you as a colleague... maybe you can join the rest of us in a beer sometime. Swap stories.
Meanwhile... Keep on Bloggin'!
- Doc
PS... "hell, take the whole fist!" *that* was a stroke of genius! I snorted beer out my nose over that one, and a couple of corn chips with it.
Young Man!
I find your language and gestures completely unacceptable!
However, I am completely sympathetic with your cause. What has happened to this laboratory and this country is even more unacceptable.
I trust you are directing your energies to more productive pursuits than this blog. I allow the value of venting one's spleen, but do not lose sight of your creative and productive self in the shadow of reactionary anger.
Frankly, your diatribe did my heart good. It's been more than a few times that I wanted to kick a little ass myself. That crap with Senator McCarthy and with Edward Teller back in the day... for example.
Time wounds all heels... which is a blessing and a curse.
- Oppy
So what I hear is someone fomenting a violent overthrow of our government. This is also know as conspiracy and treason.
If you have a clearance, you should turn it in.
Good Lord. So this represents the best and the brightest young scientists at Los Alamos?
And I see Brad is here throwing fuel on this fire too since it matches his political agenda. Good to see one scientist mentoring another.
My God. Maybe we *are* finished.
Brown-nosed suckup 8:32 -
Fomenting the violent overthrow of our government? Conspiracy and Treason you say?
That IS what you would hear if you are one of the gang trying to gut our country (and this laboratory) for personal profit and power.
If the same guys are still in office when the "troops" come home, that is probably what *will* happen, and not because Calvin predicted it.
Not that the troops will come home *while* these guys are in office. And you can bet they will be no where to be found when the chickens finally come home to roost. Chickens of their own making to boot!
Halliburton has already cut and run. How much you wanna bet Cheney already has an office (hell, a multimillion dollar compound!) in Dubai to go to when he gets impeached or his time simply runs out (18 months and counting).
Calvin offering them his "finger" or even his "fist" is metaphorical. It is not a threat to overthrow the government with violence. It is an expression of resentment and anger and a prediction of what some other folks specifically trained and hardened to violence *by these very people* are likely to do.
Especially if (when?) they realize how they have been used. I am a retired marine myself and I am proud of these young men and women sacrificing their lives for this country, but when they realize they did it under false pretenses for a corrupt regime... I pity the fools (ok... bad A-Team reference dating me way too well) that have to deal with a whole generation who realize they have been "had".
10:14
You say Brad is throwing "fuel on the fire" because he is supporting Calvin's feelings of anger and resentment, "because it matches his agenda"?
What precisely is YOUR agenda? Are you in favor of one of the world's largest private corporations running this laboratory? Do you think that is good for anyone? Do you intend to claim that Bechtel has proven themselves to be good at managing anything except their own profits and the sympathies of a bought out set of politicians?
If there work here turns out anything like the Boston Tunnel the whole world may be in dire danger, not just this laboratory.
Good to see "one scientist mentoring another"? No. It is good to see one human being mentoring another. This part is not about science boys... this is about being a decent human being.
8:32 & 10:14
Maybe you both are decent human beings but if you can't see the writing on the wall, then you are going to be in for a big shock when those you are protecting come for you.
I notice you don't take a shot at Strangelove, are you afraid he will bitch-slap you with your own hanky?
If our government is laced with corrupt politicians who are destroying our country, then do you believe that throwing them out of office (we call it voting, we call it impeachment, we call it being convicted of high crimes against the state and the people ) constitutes a "violent overthrow of the government"? You may not understand the concept of Democracy very well, just like the bulk of our current elected (and appointed) officials in DC.
Do you have any children in the military? Any nieces or nephews? Do you plan to take into your home, your heart, your life one of these young people who have been fed into a farcical war under false pretenses and held there for what appears to be no good reason except oil profits?
I was ready to believe some of the rhetoric around the war as it was ramping up, but virtually everything about it has turned out to be a lie. Did you watch the PSYOPS staged pulling down of Saddam's statue? It was not even that good, and I'm afraid it set the tenor for the rest of the story... like "The war is over" when it had barely begun... et cetera, ad nauseum... blah blah!
And here at home... do *you* need a polygraph or a piss-test? Do you know anyone who does? Or do you just accept that somehow magically, these similarly bogus approaches to "safety and security" will eliminate the few bad eggs?
I am not treasonous, and I happen to agree with a great deal of what this young man has to say.
I hope you get to be one of the many false-positives that are inevitable, I hope that you get to fight for your clearance, your job, your career, all over a procedural error or biased interpretation.
Are you *sure* you are safe from abuse of power? Don't think that sucking up to them will necessarily save you from being sacrificed "for the good of the whole". But it might... so why don't you give it a try.
What you can count on is that if you are abused in that way that people like myself, Brad, maybe even Calvin and the Doc will come to your aid, because we care about the principles of free speech, privacy, integrity.
Our "barely" or "hardly" or "not quite" elected president understands how to twist and distort democracy. Do you think he is a competent, honest and truly patriotic leader? Did you *listen* to him defend his toadey Alberto Gonzales after he blatantly lied to Congress ("I don't remember" 70+ times is either a series of blatant lies or total incompetence).
Or do you realize he is a generally incompetent, spoiled and probably sold-out mistake? He's so close to gone, you can almost smell the ozone in the hole he will leave. (no, I'm not threatening to retask an SDI satellite at the oval office! I'm speaking figuratively.)
Geeze! I think I'm catching what Calvin has... a good case of rightious indignation!
Treason Indeed... go read Naomi Wolfe's piece on the Ten Steps to Closing an Open Society linked in under Strange-as-a-hatter's blog, you will find yourself in there I think.
8:32 Anonymous
"conspiracy and treason"
If dueling were legal (and still in fashion) We would hope that Calvin would call you out for that statement.
We would proudly stand as his second. Wethinks you might look good with saber (ok.. non-violence here... permanent marker) scars on both cheeks.
10:14 Anonymous
We don't think anyone said Calvin was our best and brightest, but then nobody (except you) said he wasn't.
We stand by him, his anger is well deserved and in our opinion well placed.
11:48 Treason Indeed!
"stranger-than-a-hatter" Indeed! We guess We *do* resemble that comment.
Calvin -
Ignore the stiff-necked hecklers.
They mistake dissent for treason.
They have to be reminded from time to time.
RPF
"A patriot is someone who knows he may have to protect his country from his government."
- Ed
8:32 -
Reread the post. At no time did Calvin speak against "the government".
I happen NOT to share his extreme feelings about these individuals but I do understand that there is ample evidence for people to question them, to be offended by their behavior.
Even as a long-time conservative I am deeply disturbed by what these last 7 years have wrought in the persons of our current administration.
I may not be as angry at this list of people as Calvin (and Brad and Strangey and ???) is but I am not proud of them.
It is fundamental to the maintenance of a free and democratic society that opinions as strong as Calvin's can be expressed without threat of suppression.
Calvin's "Treason and Conspiracy" by your estimation, I read as a patriotic stand *against* the destruction of our country, our constitution.
EVEN IF Calvin is WRONG in his judgment of these people, he has the right to open dissent against the individuals who fill the offices.
And even I have a hard time defending these people very far.
"“Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it." -- Mark Twain
Well said Doc, Oppy, Richard, Ed, Mark...
We are behind your spirit all the way Calvin.
I am so pleased to see the signs of CONSERVATIVE, as well as PROGRESSIVE, anger here! There is, by God, hope!
Cinco de Mayo! Draw the line deeper in the sand!
-Brad
May 4, 2007 8:32 PM,
Definitions of conspiracy on the Web: a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act
Definitions of treason on the Web: a crime that undermines the offender's government
Definitions of troll on the Web: From the fishing term. As a noun, synonymous with flamebait. As a verb, to post controversial or provocative messages in a deliberate attempt to provoke flames.
Where is Calvin's coconspirator?
Why is Calvin's opinion a crime?
Now here's an easy one: Who is the troll?
Pinko -
These Dungeons are FILLED with Trolls. bwahahHAhaHAhahaha....
Methinks the tides are turning against the grey men in dark suits.
But the questions are:
Is it soon enough?
Will a new cadre fill their places?
Have we learned anything?
Are *we* part of the problem?
- Darko
So why is anyone with a contrary opinion a "troll?"
What a bunch of hypocrites.
Calling Calvin's rant "treason and conspiracy" and telling him he should turn in his clearance is a bit more specific than "having a contrary opinion".
This is more than "rhetoric" and as Strangelove pointed out, in another era would provoke a duel.
If we accept Pinky-Brain's definition of "trolling" or a "troll" as someone who "trolls" for a reaction by putting (flame) "bait" out, then 8:32 may or may not be a "troll".
If he/she is NOT a troll, then what could be the motivation?
Did this person really misread Calvin so completely as to believe that he was specifically suggesting an *overthrow of the US government by violent means*? - Treason
Did they misread him so thoroughly as to imagine that he was "conspiring" with others in secret to do the same? - Conspiracy
I, on the other hand, *am* trolling... I'm jerking chains here just to see what happens.
What about you? Do you think Calvin was committing two very serious crimes when he went off on that rant? Or are you just "howling back" at the "howlers" who clearly don't like the way our government is being (mis?)run and even seem to believe (assume?) that this has something to do with the way this laboratory is being (mis?)run?
Speak up 4:35 and tell us what *you* think... potshots from the back of the room are only meaningful if they happen to tell us something useful. Speak clearly and from your heart and maybe we will listen to you, *even if you are voicing a contrary opinion*!
- A. Troll
I did not call this post treason. I called it stupid. There is a difference which you apparently cannot understand.
As for what I think, I stated it already. I thought this blog post was pathetic and unworthy of someone that is supposed to be a bright postdoc at a national laboratory. All it does is rant about conspiracies and call those in power silly names. It serves no real purpose. It is funny to see how Calvin is a hero to most of the folks commenting here though, incoherent as some of those comments may be. I guess all it takes to be a hero to this crowd is some modest photoshop ability and the willingness to go on an anonymous, profanity-laced, tirade so long as it lines up with everyone else's views about that big, bad, world out there.
5:48 aka "Good Lord" ? -
All of the responses I read here regarding "treason and conspiracy" clearly reference the original 8:32 post which specifically used those terms.
Since you are obviously NOT the one who posted that (unless you are mentally disturbed in some huge way), then likely you are then "Good Lord" of 10:14 who merely suggested (as you say now) that this is stupid and offends your sense of propriety and probably contradicts your political preferences.
I think the blog title: "Boy am I Pissed" sets the stage pretty well for this post. I don't feel the way Calvin does, though I admit I have come to mistrust (virtually?) every one of the individuals he mentions in his rant and now that I realize how many of the top offices in our goverment that covers and how much of this laboratory's future hangs by their thread, I can see how he might be this pissed.
We are still waiting for "contrary opinions" of substance. Would you like to defend anything he is criticizing? Or just that he is using very strong imagery and language?
I think many of us will agree that his language and imagery is quite strong. But it does not fit 8:32's accusation of "Treason and Conspiracy".
- Darko
"Since you are obviously NOT the one who posted that (unless you are mentally disturbed in some huge way), then likely you are then "Good Lord" of 10:14 who merely suggested (as you say now) that this is stupid and offends your sense of propriety and probably contradicts your political preferences."
You are correct. I did not post the treason comment. I do not believe this is treason. That is just silly. I am the poster you identified as the other one, but your interpretation is incorrect. I do think it is stupid. I did not find it offensive.
"We are still waiting for "contrary opinions" of substance. Would you like to defend anything he is criticizing?"
No. I won't go to PETA and debate them either. It won't change any minds and would be a waste of energy. This is the equivalent of that. If I wanted to debate loony conspiracy theories, I'd go to one of the left-wing or right-wing blogs and indulge. A postdoc at LANL connecting world-event dots to form a silly local conspiracy theory is not worthy of debate. Are some of the issues raised important? Sure. Might they indirectly affect things at the laboratory? Of course. So might world hunger. Shall I construct a theory that connect Bechtel to causing children to starve in Africa? Will that shed light on our plight at LANL? No. Also, I don't have to anyway. I just know one or all of you can do construct such a picture in a nanosecond for the rest of us.
"Or just that he is using very strong imagery and language?"
I really don't care about that.
"But it does not fit 8:32's accusation of "Treason and Conspiracy"."
I agree. Nothing here is treason. Simply giving your opinion or spinning nutty theories in whatever colorful language you wish is one of the great freedom's of this country.
Good Lord -
So, we agree to disagree.
You think Calvin's (and probably Strangeo's) opinions on this matter are "silly" and that the implications involved are "nutty conspiracy theories".
As I've stated already, I don't agree with or follow all of Calvin's (or Strangeo's) or anyone's implications of this nature... but I sure can't dismiss them as either "silly" or "nutty".
If you don't see the huge problems brewed by the current administration and if you don't see a problem with a corporation of the nature of Bechtel running this (and other) laboratory, then go away and leave the rest of us to our "silliness" and "nutty conspiracy theories".
You don't troll through moveon.org and peta.org, telling them *they* are "silly" or "nutty" do you? Surely you have better things to do.
Why waste your time here unless you have something to say... and if you have something to say, spit it out.
- Darko
Ok... Hobbes finally calmed me down.
Conspiracy and Treason gave me a good laugh... he is either a total idiot or he was "baiting" us. I'd say the bait was taken.
Good Lord (as Darko calls him) seems to like to waste his time reading "silly", "nutty conspiracy theory" blogs and arguing with the "silly nuts" who like to argue back.
Thanks Brad and Doc and Oppy and Feynman and Pinky&TheBrain and even Darko for the various forms of support.
I've already done my time with people trying to dismiss me for one reason or another... youth usually being the most obvious.
No worries.
- Calvin
As I said when this started, Darko and most of the rest of you seem to be hypocrites. If someone has a different opinion, they are a troll. Funny how you rail against "the man" 1960's style for "oppression" (for lack of a better word), but you turn around and dog pile on those with a different view that does not agree with your own and try to drive them away. Narrow minded of those who claim to have a much larger world view than those they disagree with.
Were I a troll, I would be happy with the fact that the "bait" was taken and I would go away. Darko's comments hearken to him running to his Mommy about someone that talked mean to him on the playground and wants them to go away. Guess what? I'm not going away, so deal with it. Fact is, most of you people are trivial to bait. If I wanted to bait you, I would post wacky right-wing crap to counter the wacky left-wing drivel that Calvin posted. But I really don't care about any of that. Politics are politics and always will be and there is nothing any of us can do about it. If I read Calvin's blog correctly and its stated purpose, he is angry about the state of the laboratory and he wants it to succeed. Good. The current state is a good reason to be angry. There is nothing wrong with anger. I just don't see how the post in question here helps raise the state of the laboratory or offers a debate about current issues. This is what should set this blog apart from peta.org and moveon.org.
Calvin, as for people dismissing you because you are young, those are the people you should indeed ignore. People living in your house (the lab) telling you that you are diminishing yourself by posting cooky stuff like this you should take with a large grain of salt -- but you should not completely ignore it. There might be a message in there worthy of consideration and those egging you may not necessarily have your best interests at heart.
Good Lord -
You do seem sincere, but adding "cooky" (I think the conventional spelling is kooky) and "left wing drivel" is more of the same from you.
Your advice to Calvin is obviously heartfelt and while it represents a "different opinion" from most of what you hear here, your opinion is about him, about his opinions and about the opinions of the others commenting here and lies almost entirely in the "name calling range".
The juxtaposition of "treason and conspiracy" spilled over on you to get started. Bad luck.
I have lapsed into commenting only on YOUR opinions, so in that sense I am the hypocrite you accuse me of.
About hypocrisy and a small lesson in politics if you will have it:
Just because someone disagrees with you, they are not "left wing"... I think that paints you with your own hypocrisy brush. I am so far from "left wing' in any conventional sense that you can't imagine. That doesn't mean I haven't learned to resent/fear/hate the individuals who are currently running our country into the ground.
Like Strangeo who referenced his own political sympathies as leaning closer to Libertarian ideals, I am equally offended by the smarmy politics of both left and right while holding many of the ideals of both.
"One group wants to take my money for themselves and the other wants to take it and give it away"
I was not trying to "chase you away". I was pointing out to you that you seemed to be making yourself miserable by dredging through this "juvenile, driveling, nutty, conspiracy-theory BS" and arguing (mostly with me) seems a bit masochistic.
Your advice to Calvin is sound (at least the "grain of salt" part, your intentions seem sincere. Please do NOT go away unless being here makes you miserable (as it looked to me that it did).
-darko
Good Lord (now BTW?) -
I see you moved on to Todd Kauppila's memorial post to continue your commentary on the intelligence and sensibility of everyone (? so implied) else contributing here.
If you don't like the moniker "Good Lord", and you don't want to be known by your "true name" make some shit up... psuedonyms are de riguer here don't you think?
Or is even giving yourself a psuedonym too much of a commitment?
I'm only picking on you because you seem to care and seem to have something on your mind... hoping you'll cough it up. That is something besides "you are all juvenile, nutty conspiracist, morons!".
I hope I'm not being too generous when I guess that what you might want to be telling us is that you also know how much things suck at LANL but that think that there is something better to do than talk (complain?) about it here.
Am I close? What is that "better"?
- darko
"People should not fear the government, The Government should fear the people". Wise words from a great movie. Without the ability to speak about the wrongs, how does a group know what are the rights ? Calvin your up front finger gesture more than proves, along with the following blog rhetoric, just how fed up most folks are with the current way things are going at LANL. I agree with you and endorse the sentiment.
I've learned that loyalty is a reciprocal arrangement. Being loyal to your family and friends makes sense, as is loyalty to benevolent ideals and values, where community benefits are sustained over time. Unquestioned loyalty to a corporation makes no sense, absent evidence of mutuality. Loyalty to a government makes no sense, unless the government continues to give evidence that its ideals and values are both benevolent and consistent with its founding principles that one chooses to share. What we have now is a government arranged to profit and empower an elite, and this has nothing to do with Republican or Democratic parties. Realizing that the Labs are just a minor functional component of this system explained for me the cognitive dissonance of my experience. Even so, as for the tiny part one has in this scheme, it is still possible to execute one's responsibilities for the public good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIiP-aAaupA
Darko wrote: Am I close? What is that "better"?
No.
Good Lord (aka BTW) -
Good Lord! You are useless aren't you? You can't contribute anything at all.
But, whatever you do, don't go away... stay right here, because you have so many insightful observations to make!
Let's hear one.
While you are at it, why don't you tell us what it is you have against PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) or did you actually mean POGO (Project On Government Oversight)?
- Doc
I am reading this article second time today, you have to be more careful with content leakers. If I will fount it again I will send you a link
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